Sunday, November 06, 2005
More Background Information about the Horrendous Plan to Give Mt. Zion to the Vatican
I'm part of a group of people trying to have the agreement stopped, and I received this email:
When the previous pope visited Israel in 2000, it appears Israel made some kind of verbal promise (maybe written) to give the room to them. Negotiations of a formal pact were on-again-off-again (visas, tax laws and other red tape).
Progress (sic) was made when Avraham Poraz (Interior Minister/Shinui) visited Rome in September of 2004.
Gary Krupp of Pave the Way Foundation came in to facilitate in the final negotiations of the deal.Negotiations have been completed and Katsav was to sign as a formality when he goes to Rome this month.
This also explains the report I received after a prominent rav met with him and reported that Katsav said that everything we reported was true. He didn't deny a thing .
Now what? -----As a commemoration of this historic visit of the Pope to the Holy Land, Israel promised to return the Cenacle to the Holy See. Since 1967, it has been the property of the Israeli government, entrusted to the Ministry for Worship. The building, which is regarded as the first seat of the newborn Church, is also an object of pilgrimage for Jews, as they believe that King David is buried here, although there is no archeological evidence to prove it. Indeed, the room where Tradition holds that Jesus washed his disciples' feet today is a synagogue. In the past, it was also used for worship by Muslims. The cloister that leads to the second floor, where the Cenacle is, at present is a Museum of the Holocaust and a Rabbinical School. The Israeli government now seems disposed to give the Cenacle to Catholics in exchange for Santa Maria Blanca de Toledo, a synagogue that was turned into a Catholic Church. The Franciscans, who are Custodians of the Holy Places, were expelled from here in 1551 by the Ottoman regime. Ever since then, they have been trying to recover it, even appealing to international organizations. ZE00032309 http://www.zenit.org/english/archive/0003/ZE000323.html#item1--------http://www.cathnews.com/news/409/96.php
Vatican presses visiting Israeli leader on pact
Israeli interior minister Avraham Poraz was in Rome this week (last year?) for talks with Vatican officials to ease a labyrinthine visa applications faced each year by church personnel working in Israel. Poraz met the Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, and the Secretary for Relations with States, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo. Later he travelled to Castel Gandalfo for a brief meeting with Pope John Paul II. It is hoped that the pact between Israel and the Holy See will also give control of the Cenacle of Jerusalem - scene of Jesus' last supper - to Christian groups.
Negotiations between Church representatives and Israeli officials resumed in Jerusalem last week, after a break of nearly a year following an unexpected Israeli withdrawal from the talks. After a further break, the Israelis have promised to return to the bargaining table in October. Against that backdrop, the visit to Rome by the Israeli cabinet minister suggested a new bid to speed negotiations, given the interior minister has jurisdiction over the Vatican's key concerns. After the meeting between Poraz and Cardinal Sodano, the Vatican issued an official statement confirming that the negotiations had figured prominently in the talks. Zenit reports that a statement from the Vatican suggests that Cardinal Sodano had! pushed to control the agenda at Tuesday's meeting, insisting on a specific consideration of Vatican concerns rather than a general discussion of public affairs in the Middle East. The statement reported that Cardinal Sodano had observed that "the positions of the Holy See on peace, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and, in general, on the situation in the Middle East were well-known to the Israeli government." Therefore, rather than repeating those points, Cardinal Sodano "suggested that today's meeting focus on the questions of the minister's jurisdiction." SOURCE
Israel Says Pact on Cenacle Depends on Christians (Zenit 15/9/04)
Israel and Vatican Working Out Visa Issue (Zenit 14/9/04)\-----
Krupp's next project is to try to help get negotiations between the Holy See and the State of Israel back on track. He's a good friend of both Franciscan Fr. David Jaeger, a principal negotiator for the Holy See with the Israelis, and Oded B! en-Hur, the Israeli ambassador to the Holy See. Krupp said he hopes he can mobilize American Jewish support to galvanize Israel's government to bring the talks to a swift conclusion. One specific goodwill gesture he intends to urge upon the Israelis is the return of the Shrine of the Cenacle, the location where Christian tradition holds that Christ instituted the Eucharist, to the Franciscans who lost it under the Ottomans in 1551 and have been trying to reclaim it ever since. Since 1967, it has been the property of the Israeli government, entrusted to the Ministry for Worship. The building, which is regarded as the first seat of the newborn church, is also an object of pilgrimage for Jews, as they believe that King David is buried there. The room where tradition holds that Jesus washed his disciples' feet today is a synagogue. In the past, it was also used for worship by Muslims. The cloister leading to the second floor, where the cenacle is located, at present is used as a museum of the Holocaust and a rabbinical school. As we dined In Rome, Krupp's toast was to the hope that Franciscan priests may once again be able to say Mass in the cenacle within the year. http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/word012005. htm ---------http://www.cathnews.com/news/409/96.php
When the previous pope visited Israel in 2000, it appears Israel made some kind of verbal promise (maybe written) to give the room to them. Negotiations of a formal pact were on-again-off-again (visas, tax laws and other red tape).
Progress (sic) was made when Avraham Poraz (Interior Minister/Shinui) visited Rome in September of 2004.
Gary Krupp of Pave the Way Foundation came in to facilitate in the final negotiations of the deal.Negotiations have been completed and Katsav was to sign as a formality when he goes to Rome this month.
This also explains the report I received after a prominent rav met with him and reported that Katsav said that everything we reported was true. He didn't deny a thing .
Now what? -----As a commemoration of this historic visit of the Pope to the Holy Land, Israel promised to return the Cenacle to the Holy See. Since 1967, it has been the property of the Israeli government, entrusted to the Ministry for Worship. The building, which is regarded as the first seat of the newborn Church, is also an object of pilgrimage for Jews, as they believe that King David is buried here, although there is no archeological evidence to prove it. Indeed, the room where Tradition holds that Jesus washed his disciples' feet today is a synagogue. In the past, it was also used for worship by Muslims. The cloister that leads to the second floor, where the Cenacle is, at present is a Museum of the Holocaust and a Rabbinical School. The Israeli government now seems disposed to give the Cenacle to Catholics in exchange for Santa Maria Blanca de Toledo, a synagogue that was turned into a Catholic Church. The Franciscans, who are Custodians of the Holy Places, were expelled from here in 1551 by the Ottoman regime. Ever since then, they have been trying to recover it, even appealing to international organizations. ZE00032309 http://www.zenit.org/english/archive/0003/ZE000323.html#item1--------http://www.cathnews.com/news/409/96.php
Vatican presses visiting Israeli leader on pact
Israeli interior minister Avraham Poraz was in Rome this week (last year?) for talks with Vatican officials to ease a labyrinthine visa applications faced each year by church personnel working in Israel. Poraz met the Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, and the Secretary for Relations with States, Archbishop Giovanni Lajolo. Later he travelled to Castel Gandalfo for a brief meeting with Pope John Paul II. It is hoped that the pact between Israel and the Holy See will also give control of the Cenacle of Jerusalem - scene of Jesus' last supper - to Christian groups.
Negotiations between Church representatives and Israeli officials resumed in Jerusalem last week, after a break of nearly a year following an unexpected Israeli withdrawal from the talks. After a further break, the Israelis have promised to return to the bargaining table in October. Against that backdrop, the visit to Rome by the Israeli cabinet minister suggested a new bid to speed negotiations, given the interior minister has jurisdiction over the Vatican's key concerns. After the meeting between Poraz and Cardinal Sodano, the Vatican issued an official statement confirming that the negotiations had figured prominently in the talks. Zenit reports that a statement from the Vatican suggests that Cardinal Sodano had! pushed to control the agenda at Tuesday's meeting, insisting on a specific consideration of Vatican concerns rather than a general discussion of public affairs in the Middle East. The statement reported that Cardinal Sodano had observed that "the positions of the Holy See on peace, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and, in general, on the situation in the Middle East were well-known to the Israeli government." Therefore, rather than repeating those points, Cardinal Sodano "suggested that today's meeting focus on the questions of the minister's jurisdiction." SOURCE
Israel Says Pact on Cenacle Depends on Christians (Zenit 15/9/04)
Israel and Vatican Working Out Visa Issue (Zenit 14/9/04)\-----
Krupp's next project is to try to help get negotiations between the Holy See and the State of Israel back on track. He's a good friend of both Franciscan Fr. David Jaeger, a principal negotiator for the Holy See with the Israelis, and Oded B! en-Hur, the Israeli ambassador to the Holy See. Krupp said he hopes he can mobilize American Jewish support to galvanize Israel's government to bring the talks to a swift conclusion. One specific goodwill gesture he intends to urge upon the Israelis is the return of the Shrine of the Cenacle, the location where Christian tradition holds that Christ instituted the Eucharist, to the Franciscans who lost it under the Ottomans in 1551 and have been trying to reclaim it ever since. Since 1967, it has been the property of the Israeli government, entrusted to the Ministry for Worship. The building, which is regarded as the first seat of the newborn church, is also an object of pilgrimage for Jews, as they believe that King David is buried there. The room where tradition holds that Jesus washed his disciples' feet today is a synagogue. In the past, it was also used for worship by Muslims. The cloister leading to the second floor, where the cenacle is located, at present is used as a museum of the Holocaust and a rabbinical school. As we dined In Rome, Krupp's toast was to the hope that Franciscan priests may once again be able to say Mass in the cenacle within the year. http://www.nationalcatholicreporter.org/word/word012005. htm ---------http://www.cathnews.com/news/409/96.php
