Thursday, November 10, 2005
"Engaging"
Collette Avital, a Peres protege`, was interviewed on Arutz 7.
Here is some of the transcript:
Fleisher: Now, one of the things that I hear from Labor MKs is this word “pragmatic.” It is said that the right lives in a world of messianism and the left lives in a world of reality --
MK Avital: I did not say that - don’t put that in my mouth. I think there are people on the left and the right who are pragmatic. You are either born pragmatic or you are not. That is all I am trying to say, and please don’t put the labels, because yes, I think there are more people who traditionally act according to realpolitik – this has been the trend in the Labor Party. We have our dreams, but we know the difference between dreams and reality. But I do not wish to say who is the dreamer and who is not. The person who used the word messianic on this program was you and not me – let’s make this clear.
Fleisher: In my dictionary, messianic is not a bad word.
MK Avital: Very good, so please go ahead and be messianic. I am trying to live in this world --
Fleisher: OK, well I have a simple question. I have a simple question. Those pragmatic, realpolitik ideas that the Labor Party has promoted - Oslo, the Disengagement – have all led to an escalation in terror. Everything you guys have put forward has brought more bloodshed. So your pragmatism – what peace has it brought? Here is another idea – kick the Jews out of Judea and Samaria and we will draw a line between Judea and Samaria and the rest of small Israel and there will be peace. Then when the bombs start falling on Israel and Tel Aviv --
MK Avital: You know what, I am starting to be very sorry for engaging. Will we speak seriously, or you are going to throw at me all this crap --
Fleisher: What crap?
MK Avital: 'You people brought us bloody Oslo' and want to 'kick all the Jews out' – those are not expressions that we are using and if you want to speak seriously, please do --
Fleisher: I think it is very serious --
MK Avital: If you don’t want to engage in a serious conversation then I am not going to --
Fleisher: Hold on a second MK Avital, hold on one second. I am being serious and I am not using --
MK Avital: No, you are not. You’re not! You’re not! I am not kicking Jews out of anywhere! I don’t like this vocabulary --
Stutz: I think we need to learn to have a discussion here between you, Yishai and myself, together with the fact that we don’t necessarily like each other’s vocabulary, but we will still have a discussion.
MK Avital: I have not used any abusive vocabulary towards you.
Fleisher: It wasn’t abusive --
MK Avital: Those were abusive words.
Fleisher: So, what happened in Gush Katif? What do you call that?
MK Avital: I call that Disengagement --
Fleisher: OK, but what about those people that lived there. How did they feel personally? Were they 'disengaged'? What happened to them?
MK Avital: I think that they had to leave their homes and they were made to leave their homes against their will, but I don’t think that this is the kind of vocabulary --
Fleisher: Fine, so let’s call it “kicked out of their homes” – can we use those words?
MK Avital: Yes.
...
MK Avital: ... I do believe that. I think the only way to reach a solution is to separate from the Palestinians. I don’t think we should live in their midst. I think we should live in a Jewish country, with a Jewish majority. Let them live where they live and let us live where we live.
Click here to listen to the entire interview on Israel National Radio, which also touched on the Labor Party primaries and other issues.
Here is some of the transcript:
Fleisher: Now, one of the things that I hear from Labor MKs is this word “pragmatic.” It is said that the right lives in a world of messianism and the left lives in a world of reality --
MK Avital: I did not say that - don’t put that in my mouth. I think there are people on the left and the right who are pragmatic. You are either born pragmatic or you are not. That is all I am trying to say, and please don’t put the labels, because yes, I think there are more people who traditionally act according to realpolitik – this has been the trend in the Labor Party. We have our dreams, but we know the difference between dreams and reality. But I do not wish to say who is the dreamer and who is not. The person who used the word messianic on this program was you and not me – let’s make this clear.
Fleisher: In my dictionary, messianic is not a bad word.
MK Avital: Very good, so please go ahead and be messianic. I am trying to live in this world --
Fleisher: OK, well I have a simple question. I have a simple question. Those pragmatic, realpolitik ideas that the Labor Party has promoted - Oslo, the Disengagement – have all led to an escalation in terror. Everything you guys have put forward has brought more bloodshed. So your pragmatism – what peace has it brought? Here is another idea – kick the Jews out of Judea and Samaria and we will draw a line between Judea and Samaria and the rest of small Israel and there will be peace. Then when the bombs start falling on Israel and Tel Aviv --
MK Avital: You know what, I am starting to be very sorry for engaging. Will we speak seriously, or you are going to throw at me all this crap --
Fleisher: What crap?
MK Avital: 'You people brought us bloody Oslo' and want to 'kick all the Jews out' – those are not expressions that we are using and if you want to speak seriously, please do --
Fleisher: I think it is very serious --
MK Avital: If you don’t want to engage in a serious conversation then I am not going to --
Fleisher: Hold on a second MK Avital, hold on one second. I am being serious and I am not using --
MK Avital: No, you are not. You’re not! You’re not! I am not kicking Jews out of anywhere! I don’t like this vocabulary --
Stutz: I think we need to learn to have a discussion here between you, Yishai and myself, together with the fact that we don’t necessarily like each other’s vocabulary, but we will still have a discussion.
MK Avital: I have not used any abusive vocabulary towards you.
Fleisher: It wasn’t abusive --
MK Avital: Those were abusive words.
Fleisher: So, what happened in Gush Katif? What do you call that?
MK Avital: I call that Disengagement --
Fleisher: OK, but what about those people that lived there. How did they feel personally? Were they 'disengaged'? What happened to them?
MK Avital: I think that they had to leave their homes and they were made to leave their homes against their will, but I don’t think that this is the kind of vocabulary --
Fleisher: Fine, so let’s call it “kicked out of their homes” – can we use those words?
MK Avital: Yes.
...
MK Avital: ... I do believe that. I think the only way to reach a solution is to separate from the Palestinians. I don’t think we should live in their midst. I think we should live in a Jewish country, with a Jewish majority. Let them live where they live and let us live where we live.
Click here to listen to the entire interview on Israel National Radio, which also touched on the Labor Party primaries and other issues.
